台積電第三季法說會法人問答環節 Part 2

以下內容為台積電 2023 年第三季法人問答環節，後五位法人詢問與台積電回覆重點，《科技新報》透過 AI 工具轉錄並由編輯稍做修飾，第一時間為讀者帶來最全面的法說會訊息，供讀者參考。

Operator: Next one to ask questions, Brett Lin from Bank of America.
接線員：下一位提問的是來自美國銀行的Brett Lin。

BL: Thank you for taking my question. So first of all, congrats on the strong result and then also the impressive gross margin. So I have two questions. One is on the end device AI, HAI and the other is on the CPO.

Brett：感謝您接受我的提問。首先，恭喜您取得了強勁的成績，並且達到了令人印象深刻的毛利率。我有兩個問題。一個是關於終端設備的AI，HAI，另一個是關於CPO。

BL: So appreciate the management’s constructive comments on growth outlook on the HAI. So besides the, well, interesting engagement with the clients, what are the implications for the wafer consumptions for the firm?

Brett：非常感謝管理層對HAI成長前景的建設性評論。那麼，除了與客戶的有趣互動外，對公司的晶圓消耗有什麼影響呢？

BL: And also on the computing power and energy consumption angle on the end device with additional AI functions, should we expect it to re-accelerate the node migration for the end devices? That’s my first question. Thank you.

Brett：並且從計算能力和能源消耗的角度來看，對於具有額外AI功能的終端設備，我們是否應該期待它重新加速終端設備的節點遷移？這是我的第一個問題。謝謝。

Host: Okay, so Brad’s first question is about edge and end device AI. He wants to know what is the implications for wafer consumption?

主持人：好的，所以Brad的第一個問題是關於邊緣和終端設備的AI。他想知道這對晶圓消耗有什麼影響？

Host: And then with the increasing need for energy efficiency and power, he is wondering, does this re-accelerate or increase the node for, I guess, his words is node migration or adoption of leading edge technologies?

主持人：隨著對能源效率和電力需求的增加，他疑惑的是，這是否會加速或增加對節點的需求？我猜，他是指節點遷移或採用領先的技術？

C.C.: Well, the edge device start to, that’s including smartphone and PCs, start to incorporate the AI functionality inside. We observe some of the neural engines has been added increasingly.
C.C.：嗯，邊緣設備開始，包括智能手機和個人電腦，開始內置AI功能。我們觀察到一些神經引擎已經逐漸增加。

C.C.: So the die size will increase, even the unit did not increase dramatically, but the die size, it’s in mid-teens, no, not, I mean, mixed single-digit is the die size increase so far. And I expect that this kind of trend will continue.

C.C.：因此，晶圓尺寸將增加，即使晶圓的數量沒有大幅增加，但到目前為止，晶圓尺寸已經增加了中等的規模…不，我的意思是，晶圓尺寸的增加是混合數位的。而且我預期這種趨勢將繼續下去。

C.C.: And so more and more application on the AI side will be incorporated into those kind of edge device. And that will need a very power-efficient chips to put it into the edge device, especially when it is a mobile.

C.C.：因此，越來越多的AI應用將會被整合到這類邊緣設備中。這將需要非常節能的晶片來安裝到邊緣設備中，尤其是當它是移動設備時。

C.C.: So I do expect, from my own perspective, I do expect that my customer will move into the leading edge node more and more quickly to compete in the market.

C.C.：所以從我的角度來看，我確實期待我的客戶將更快速地進入領先的節點，以在市場上競爭。

Brett: Okay. Thank you very much, C.C.. So, well, so a bit of a follow-up is that, well, now it accounts for some, well, mixed single-digit of the die size incremental for a chip. So does that, or are we seeing that to enlarge to something like mid-teens or, well, even bigger in the, well, mid to long-term?

Brett：好的。非常感謝你，C.C.。那麼，跟進的問題是，現在這占了芯片晶圓尺寸的混合數位增量的一部分。那麼，我們是否可以預見這將擴大到中等數位，甚至更大，長期來看呢？

Host: So Brett’s quick follow-up is if the AI portion is kind of mid-single-digit now, how should we expect? Can we expect mid-teens or what type of percentage in a few years’ time?

主持人：所以，Brett的迅速跟進問題是，如果AI部分現在大約是中單位數，我們應該如何期待？我們可以期待中十幾位數，或者在未來幾年內會是什麼樣的百分比？

C.C.: Well, I will answer the question. Actually, we see the increase on the die size, but we cannot nail down the, we say the mid-single-digit, but I expect it to start to increase. And whether that will increase our forecast and our growth or something, it’s still too early to say to, at this moment.

C.C.：好的，我將回答這個問題。實際上，我們看到晶片尺寸的增加，但我們無法確定，我們說的是中位數位數的增加，但我預期它將開始增加。至於這是否會增加我們的預測和我們的成長或其他等等，目前還為之過早。

BL: Yeah, but we’re still quantifying the impact from these development. So we’re maintaining the previous statement that we expect it to grow to about, in five years, about mid-single-digit. I’m sorry, mid-teens of our revenue.

Brett：是的，但我們仍在量化這些發展對業務的影響。因此，我們保持之前的說法，預計在五年內，我們的收入將增長到約中個位數，對不起，是中十位數。

Host: Yeah, I think, Brett, probably just very simply, as we said, edge AI, we do see some activity. It will drive silicon content, but this will occur over time, okay? And we don’t have any quantitative number to share. All right?

主持人：是的，我想，Brett，簡單來說，正如我們所說，邊緣人工智能，我們確實看到一些活動。這將推動矽內容，但這需要一些時間，好嗎？我們目前沒有具體的數字可分享。這樣可以嗎？

Brett: Got it, thank you.
Brett：知道了，謝謝。

Okay, what is your second question?
主持人：好的，你的第二個問題是什麼？

BL: Okay, so the second question is on CPO. So basically, we have learned that TSMC is doing quite well and also leading the industry in CPO or so-called silicon photonics and has introduced a platform to clients with the technologies.
Brett：好的，那麼第二個問題是關於CPO。基本上，我們已經了解到TSMC的表現相當出色，並且在CPO或所謂的矽光子學領域中領先業界，並向客戶介紹了擁有這些技術的平台。

BL: So may we learn that opportunities and implications of the new technology for the industry and for our firm? And also, shall we expect the platform to offer additional competitive advantage for TSMC in the mid to long run? Thank you.

Brett：那麼，我們是否可以學習到新技術對於產業以及我們公司的機會和影響呢？同時，我們是否可以期待該平台在中長期內為台積電提供額外的競爭優勢？謝謝。

Host: Brett, your second question is on silicon photonics. Is that correct?
Brett，你的第二個問題是關於矽光子學的，對嗎？

BL: Yes.
Brett: 是的。

Host: So he wants to know our positioning or progress on silicon photonics. How important is this? And will this be a competitive advantage for TSMC going forward in the future?

主持人：所以他想知道我們在矽光子學的定位或進展。這有多重要？這將會是台積電未來的競爭優勢嗎？

C.C.: Okay, let me answer that question.Silicon photonics actually is growing its importance because of just a larger amount of data need to be collected, processed, and transferred in an energy-efficient manner. Silicon photonics tends to be the best to fit that role.

C.C.：好的，讓我來回答這個問題。矽光子學實際上因為需要收集、處理和以節能方式傳輸大量數據而日益增加其重要性。矽光子學似乎最適合擔任這個角色。

C.C.: And TSMC has been working on silicon photonics for years.

C.C.：而台積電已經在矽光子學領域努力多年。

C.C.: And most importantly, we’re collaborating with multiple leading customers to support their innovations in this field. It takes a lot of time to develop the technology and to build the capacity.

C.C.：而最重要的是，我們正在與多家領先的客戶合作，以支持他們在這個領域的創新。開發這項技術並建立能力需要大量的時間。

C.C.: And when we increase the volume production, we believe that TSMC’s silicon photonics will be the best technology and when customers roll out all their innovations. But as I said, it’s gradually increasing in their activity and gradually increasing their demand as of today.

C.C.：當我們提高量產時，我們相信台積電的矽光子技術將是最佳的技術，並且當客戶推出他們所有的創新時。但正如我所說，他們的活動正在逐步增加，並且他們的需求也在今天逐步增加。

BL: Got it, thank you very much.
Brett：明白了，非常感謝。

Host: All right, thank you. Operator, can we move on to the next caller, please?
主持人：好的，謝謝。接線員，我們能否轉到下一位來電者？

Operator:
Next one, we have Sunny Lin from UBS.
下一位是來自瑞銀的Sunny Lin。

Sunny:
Good afternoon. Thank you very much for taking my questions. So, my first question is on advanced packaging. Incrementally, we are hearing more customers’ interest in the adoption to achieve better heterogeneous integrations. But I want to get your thoughts on what could be the potential impact of customers relying a bit more on packaging to improve the system performance and perhaps less on the process migrations given cost considerations. Meanwhile, SOIC has been introduced for quite a while, whereas the customer adoption still seems to be limited at this point. So, when should we expect a more meaningful pickup of SOIC and what could be the major catalyst? Thank you.

午安好。非常感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於先進封裝技術。我們逐漸聽到越來越多客戶對採用這種技術以實現更好的異構整合表現出興趣。但我想知道您對於客戶更多地依賴封裝技術以改善系統性能，而可能較少考慮成本方面的工藝遷移可能會有什麼潛在影響。與此同時，SOIC 已經推出了一段時間，但客戶採用似乎仍然有限。那麼，我們應該何時預期 SOIC 會更有意義地增加，並可能的主要推動因素是什麼？謝謝。

Host:
Okay. So, Sunny, sorry, I may have missed a little bit of the first part, but I think her question is on overall advanced packaging, looking at this trend and the move to more, of course, heterogeneous integration. What are the cost implications and how does advanced packaging work and go together with the process technology standpoint? And then also a question about the update or progress of SOIC. Is that correct, Sunny?

好的。Sunny，對不起，我可能錯過了一小部分的第一部分，但我認為她的問題是關於整體先進封裝技術，觀察這一趨勢以及更多異構整合的轉變。這對成本有什麼影響，先進封裝技術如何與工藝技術的角度相互配合？然後還有一個關於SOIC的更新或進展的問題。這樣對嗎，Sunny？

Sunny:
Well, so maybe if I may clarify a bit, so for the first part, I wonder if customers may consider relying a bit more on packaging, whereas slowing down a bit on the process migration because of the increasing cost.
好的，所以也許如果我可以稍微澄清一下，對於第一部分，我在想客戶是否可能考慮更多地依賴封裝，而因為成本增加而在流程遷移上稍微放慢腳步。

Host:
Okay, so she’s asking will customers, because of the increasing cost of the process technologies, will customers rely more on advanced packaging as a result?
好的，所以她的問題是，由於製程技術的成本不斷上升，客戶是否會更依賴先進的包裝技術？

CC Wei:
Let me answer that. It’s not because of the increasing of the costing in the more advanced node. It’s actually, they try to, our customers try to maximize the system performance. That’s all. That’s the major portion. That includes the kind of a speed improvement or the power consumption decrease, all those kinds of thing, put it all together. And maybe cost is also part of the consideration, which we notice about. And so more and more customers are moving into the very advanced technology node, and they start to adopt the chiplet approaches. And so, you know, no matter what, TSMC provides the industry-leading solution in both very leading technology and also very advanced packaging technology. And to work with our customers for their product, they have a best system performance.

讓我來回答這個問題。這並不是因為更先進節點的成本增加。實際上，他們嘗試，我們的客戶嘗試最大化系統性能。這是主要部分。這包括各種速度提升或功耗降低，所有這些東西，全部放在一起。也許成本也是我們所注意的考慮因素之一。因此，越來越多的客戶轉向非常先進的技術節點，並開始採用小晶片的方法。因此，你知道的，無論如何，台積電在最先進的技術和封裝技術方面都提供了業界領先的解決方案。與客戶合作，他們的產品具有最佳的系統性能。

And the other one is, you are asking about the SOIC, when it will become a high volume and more substantial revenue for TSMC. It’s coming, it’s coming. Actually, the customer is already ready to announce their new product, which are widely adopted. And I expect, you know, starting from now and next year, the SOIC will generate revenue and become one of the faster-growing advanced packaging solution in the next few years.

另一個問題是，你問到SOIC何時會成為TSMC的高量產和更大的收入來源。它正在來臨，正在來臨。實際上，客戶已經準備好公布他們的新產品，這些產品已經被廣泛採用。
而我預期，你知道的，從現在開始以及明年，SOIC將會產生收入，並在未來幾年內成為增長最快的先進封裝解決方案之一。明白了，非常感謝。如果可以的話，我有個迅速的後續問題。

Sunny:
Got it, thank you very much. If I may, a quick follow-up. Three months ago, you had a target to double your co-op capacities. And just now you mentioned AI demand continues to surprise on the upside. I do wonder if there’s any update on your co-op capacity expansion?
三個月前，你有個目標是要將你的合作能力加倍。而你剛剛提到AI的需求持續出乎意料地增長。我想知道你的合作能力擴展有沒有任何更新？

Host:
Okay, so I will take this as your second question, Sunny. But as she’s asking about co-op expansion, we had said that we will double the capacity three months ago. Can we provide an update on the overall co-op capacity and I guess capex and capacity go hand in hand? What is our plan?
好的，我會把這個當作你的第二個問題，Sunny。但是，既然她問到了合作社的擴展，我們三個月前就說過我們將會加倍產能。我們能否對整體的合作社產能提供一個更新，我猜投資和產能是相輔相成的？我們的計劃是什麼？

CC:
Well, Sunny, you know, the last time we say that we will double our co-op capacity, we are working very hard to increase the capacity more than double, but today is limited by my supplier’s capability or their capacity.

嗯，Sunny，你知道，我們上次說過我們將會加倍我們的合作能力，我們正在努力提高能力，甚至超過兩倍，但今天受到我的供應商的能力或他們的產能限制。

So we still maintain that we will double our co-op capacity by the end of 2024. But the total output actually is more than double from 2023 to 2024 because of a very high demand from our customer. So as you can, this kind of a trend, we will continue to increase our co-op capacity to support our customer, even into 2025.

所以我們仍然堅持，到2024年底，我們的合作能力將增加一倍。但實際上，由於我們的客戶需求非常高，從2023年到2024年的總產量實際上已經超過了兩倍。所以，如你所見，這種趨勢，我們將繼續增加我們的合作能力以支持我們的客戶，甚至到2025年。

Host:
Okay, Sunny, does that answer your question?
好的，Sunny，這樣回答你的問題了嗎？

Sunny:
Okay, thank you.
好的，謝謝你。

Host:
Operator, can we move on to the next caller, please?
操作員，我們可以接下一位來電者嗎？

Operator:
Next one, please. Welcome, Madi Husseini from FIG.
請接下一位。歡迎，來自FIG的Madi Husseini。

Madi:
Yes, thanks for taking my question. I understand there are a number of new products that you’re ramping into a year end and into first half of 2024 for various markets. And I want to understand how the ramp of these new products are to impact the seasonality. Could we see a scenario where in the first half, the ramp of these new products, especially to be at the leading edge to somewhat upset the seasonal factors? And any thoughts there? And I’ll have a follow up.

是的，感謝您接受我的問題。我了解到您有一些新產品正在為年底以及2024年上半年的各種市場做準備。而我想了解這些新產品的推出如何影響季節性。我們是否可能看到一種情況，在上半年，這些新產品的推出，尤其是處於領先地位，有些打亂了季節性因素？對此有任何想法嗎？我會有後續的問題。

Host:
All right, Madi. Well, Madi’s first question is, in terms of new products, which of course, customer products, we don’t comment on, but he said we’re ramping products into the second half. And so how will this ramp of new products go into as we go into first half 2024? And can this offset or mitigate some of the seasonality?

好的，Madi。嗯，Madi的第一個問題是，關於新產品，當然是客戶的產品，我們不會評論，但他說我們正在把產品推向下半年。那麼，這些新產品的推出將如何進行，當我們進入2024年的上半年呢？這能否抵消或緩解一些季節性因素？

Madi:
Yeah, let me rephrase that. Contribution of customers’ new products, and how would that impact, or how could that upset seasonal factors?

是的，讓我重新表述一下。客戶的新產品對於業績的貢獻，以及這將如何影響，或者說可能如何打亂季節性因素？
Mandall:
Yeah, Madi, I don’t think we can comment on specific customer products, but I can tell you that we’re not seeing any dramatic change in the seasonality as of now.

是的，Madi，我不認為我們可以對特定的客戶產品進行評論，但我可以告訴你，到目前為止，我們並未看到季節性變化有任何劇變。
Madi:
Okay, because I was looking at your year calendar 23, and given your Q4 guide, you’re actually doing better than what you guided three months ago. Three months ago, you said revenues could be down 10% US dollar, and now it could actually be down by a single digit.
Is that a combination of a stronger new product ramp and better pricing? Is that a fair assessment?

好的，因為我在看你們的23年度日曆，根據你們的第四季指引，你們實際上的表現比三個月前的預測還要好。三個月前，你們說收入可能會下降10%美元，但現在實際上可能只下降一位數。那是更強大的新產品推出和更好的定價的結合嗎？這樣的評估公正嗎？

Host:
Okay, so Madi is really looking at, he rightly notes that three months ago, we said this year will decline around 10% in US dollar term.Now with the fourth quarter implied guidance is slightly better. So he wants to know what is the implication or behind this.

好的，所以Madi真的在看，他正確地指出，三個月前，我們說今年將以美元計價下跌約10%。現在，第四季度的暗示指導稍微好一些。所以他想知道這背後的含義或影響是什麼。

CC Wei:
Well, let me give you one simple reason, because our ramp up of N3, because of the demand of N3 is strong. So ramp up quickly to meet customers’ demand, so the final result is better than we expected three months ago.

讓我給你一個簡單的原因，那就是我們對N3的提升，因為N3的需求強勁。所以，我們必須迅速提升產能以滿足客戶的需求，這樣最終的結果會比我們三個月前預期的還要好。

Host:
Yeah, and we have also said that the strong ramp of N3 will continue in the next year, okay? That’s about all the seasonality we can give.
對，我們也說過，N3的強勁增長將在明年持續，好嗎？這大概就是我們能提供的所有季節性。

Madi:
Gotcha, okay. And then perhaps if I were to ask a second question, I just want to better understand your view on your customers’ inventory correction. We’re reaching the bottom, where we don’t have any visibility on how quickly they’re going to refresh inventory. The slope of the recovery is still not clear. Did I understand you correctly?

明白了，好的。然後，如果我要問第二個問題，我只是想更好地理解你對客戶庫存調整的看法。我們已經到達底部，我們無法看到他們將多快更新庫存。復甦的斜率仍然不明朗。我有沒有理解你的意思？

Host:
So, Madi’s second question you would like to clarify. So are we saying that customers’ inventory is reaching or approaching a bottom, but the slope of the inventory is not clear? Is that what we are saying?
那是我們正在說的嗎？所以Madi，你想要澄清的第二個問題。所以我們是在說客戶的庫存正在接近或者已經接近底部，但庫存的斜率還不明確嗎？

CC Wei:
Okay, I’ll answer the question. Actually, you know, in these couple of months, we start to see the demand stabilized in the PC and smartphone end market. And in fact, we see some kind of urgent PO asked for more devices to be shifted to their place to meet the demand. That gave us a hint that their inventory control has already become more healthier than we thought. So in terms of uncertain macro, it probably will continue, but our expectation is very close to a healthy condition. So that’s why we say we can expect 2024 to be a healthy growth year for TSMC. Okay. Madi, did I answer your question?

好的，我會回答這個問題。實際上，你知道，在這幾個月裡，我們開始看到PC和智能手機終端市場的需求穩定下來。事實上，我們看到某種緊急的採購訂單要求將更多的設備轉移到他們的地方以滿足需求。這給了我們一個暗示，他們的庫存控制已經比我們想像的更為健康。所以在不確定的宏觀環境下，這種情況可能會持續，但我們的期望非常接近健康的狀態。這就是為什麼我們說我們可以期待2024年對於台積電來說將是一個健康的增長年。好的，Madi，我有回答到你的問題嗎？

Madi:
Great, thank you.
太好了，謝謝你。

Host:
Okay, in the interest of time, thank you, Mandeep. In the interest of time, we’ll take questions from the last two participants, please. 好的，為了節省時間，謝謝你，Madi。為了節省時間，我們將只接受最後兩位參與者的問題。

Operator:
Next one to ask a question is Krish Sankar from TD Cohen.
下一位提問的是來自TD Cohen的Krish Asanka。

Krish:
Yeah, hi, thanks for doing my question. I had two of them. First one is on gross margins. When do you expect N3 to reach corporate average gross margin? And as you look into next year, as more mature node capacity comes online across the industry, how do you think about mature node gross margins also? And I have a follow up after that.

嗨，謝謝你回答我的問題。我有兩個問題。首先是關於毛利率。你預計N3何時能達到公司平均的毛利率？而當你展望明年，隨著整個產業中更成熟的節點產能陸續上線，你又如何看待成熟節點的毛利率呢？之後我還有追問。

Host:
Okay, so Krish’s first question is on gross margin. When do we expect three nanometer or N3, I should say, to reach the corporate average gross margin? And how do we see the gross margin trend for the more mature nodes?
好的，那麼首先來自Krish的問題是關於毛利率。我們預計何時三奈米或者我應該說N3，會達到公司平均的毛利率？對於較成熟的節點，我們如何看待毛利率的趨勢呢？

Wendell:
Yeah, Krish, in the past, our leading nodes normally reach gross margins, corporate margin in about eight quarters. But as we progress with more and more leading nodes, it will become more and more challenging because of several reasons. Well, first of all, our corporate margin is higher than before. And secondly, the leading node is N3. The leading node, as I just said, is becoming more and more complex.

對的，Krish，過去我們的領先節點通常在大約八個季度內達到毛利率，公司利潤。但隨著我們進行越來越多的領先節點，由於幾個原因，這將變得越來越具有挑戰性。首先，我們的企業利潤率比以前更高。其次，領先的節點是N3。正如我剛才所說，領先的節點變得越來越複雜。

And also, in the past few years, the inflation pressure that was not expected also contribute the higher costs in the N3. So it’s gonna be pretty challenging for future leading nodes to reach corporate margin as in before, like before in the same timeframe. The mature nodes, I can tell you that our mature nodes are the gross margins are really congregated around the corporate average in a pretty narrow band because we focus on specialty technology. It’s not a commodity capacity. Yes.

此外，過去幾年中，未預期的通脹壓力也導致N3的成本增加。因此，對於未來的領先節點來說，要在相同的時間框架內達到與以前相同的企業利潤邊際將會相當具有挑戰性。成熟的節點，我可以告訴你，我們的成熟節點的毛利率真的集中在公司平均水平的一個相當狹窄的範圍內，因為我們專注於專業技術。這不是一種商品容量。

Krish:
Okay. Yeah, that’s very helpful. Thank you for that. And then as a follow-up on Arizona, you mentioned that you’d hired about 1,100 local employees.

I’m kind of curious, is that critical mass enough for you to start four nanometer production or do you have another target level of employees before they can actually start getting this production since you’re still maintaining the output to be in first half of 2025? Okay. Thank you.

是的。好的。嗯，這非常有幫助。感謝您的回答。接著關於亞利桑那的後續問題，您提到您已經僱用了大約1100名當地員工。我有點好奇，這個臨界量對您來說是否足夠開始四奈米的生產，或者您是否有另一個員工目標水平，他們才能實際開始進行這種生產，因為您仍然維持產出將在2025年的上半年？好的。謝謝。

Host:
Thank you, Krish. So Krish’s second question is about our first fab in Arizona. He notes that we have said we hired 1,100 local employees. So his question is, is this enough critical mass or enough people basically to support the ramp of the first fab as we plan, as we said today, in first half 25?

謝謝你，Krish。所以Krish的第二個問題是關於我們在亞利桑那州的第一個晶圓廠。他指出我們已經聘請了1,100名當地員工。所以他的問題是，這是否有足夠的關鍵質量或基本上有足夠的人來支持我們計劃的第一個晶圓廠的增長，如我們今天所說的，在25年的上半年？

CC Wei:
Of course. We continue to hire the local talents to join the TSMC 5 in Arizona. So when we start to have a volume production, we are confident that we will have enough resources to support our ramp up in Arizona.

當然。我們繼續聘請當地的人才加入位於亞利桑那的TSMC 5。所以當我們開始進行大量生產時，我們有信心我們將有足夠的資源來支持我們在亞利桑那的擴大生產。

Host:
Okay. All right.
好的。好的。

Thank you.
謝謝。

Host:
Thank you, Krish. Operator, can we move on to the last participant, please?
謝謝你，Krish。操作員，我們可以進行到最後一位參與者嗎？

Operator:
Yes, the last one to ask question, Charles Shi from NIM.
是的，最後一個提問的是來自NIM的Charles Shi。

Charles:
Hi, thank you for squeezing me in. First off, I really want to congratulate TSMC for delivering good results for Q3 and very good guidance for Q4. But I want to really call out the reported revenue for 5 nanometers in the third quarter looks like you are showing some really good counter cyclical strength and probably the record high. I want to understand the rebound in the 5 nanometer business in Q3. Is that going to be more in the following quarters and what’s behind that?

嗨，感謝你們抽空讓我提問。首先，我真的想要恭喜TSMC在第三季度取得了良好的成績，並且對第四季度的指導也非常好。但我真的想要特別提出，你們在第三季度報告的5奈米的收入看起來顯示出你們有非常好的逆周期強度，可能是創紀錄的高點。我想了解第三季度5奈米業務的反彈。接下來的幾個季度會有更多嗎？背後的原因是什麼？

And the relative, let’s say, with the expectation like three to six months ago when you were reducing your 23 hour, is 5 nanometer doing better than expected? And how has the demand trended for the last two to five nanometer? Thank you.

而相對的，我們可以說，三到六個月前當你在減少你的23小時，5奈米的表現是否超出預期？過去兩到五奈米的需求趨勢如何？謝謝。

Host:
Okay, so Charles first question is about 5 nanometer. He’s asking in the very near term, he notes that he saw a very strong sequential revenue increase in the third quarter. So he’s wondering what is driving this? And then he’s asking about what is the outlook for the next three to six months for 5 nanometer specifically?

好的，查爾斯的第一個問題是關於5奈米的。他在近期內問，他注意到第三季度的收入有非常強烈的連續增長。所以他想知道是什麼驅動了這個增長？然後他問的是，對於5奈米技術，未來三到六個月的展望是什麼？

Wendell:
Yeah, Charles, I can share with you the increase in revenue and five in the third quarter mainly comes from two platforms, HPC and smartphone. HPC also includes the AI related demand. Smartphones are basically customers, some customers product seasonalities. Now for looking wise, I’m not going to share with you, but we will tell you in January what actual the next quarter N5 revenue will be.

是的，查爾斯，我可以和你分享第三季度的收入增長和五個主要來源，主要來自兩個平台，即高性能計算（HPC）和智慧型手機。高性能計算也包括與人工智能相關的需求。智能手機基本上是客戶，一些客戶的產品季節性。現在關於看起來明智的部分，我不打算與你分享，但我們將在一月份告訴你下一季度N5的實際收入將是多少。

Host:
The overall revenue.We don’t provide revenue by process node, okay. What’s your second question, Charles?
整體收入。我們不會按照製程節點提供收入資訊，好嗎？Charles，你的第二個問題是什麼？

Charles:
Yeah, thanks Jeff. The other question is about CapEx. It sounds like that you are expecting CapEx on absolute dollar may still grow going forward. I know that’s a long-term comment, but I looked at the near term, QSMC CapEx seems to be running at a 7 billion U.S. dollars per quarter in the second half 23, which kind of is at a 28 billion annualized around rate.

對，謝謝你，Jeff。另一個問題是關於資本支出。聽起來你們預期未來資本支出在絕對美元上可能仍會增長。我知道這是一個長期的評論，但我看近期，QSMC的資本支出似乎在23年下半年每季達到70億美元，這種情況下年化速度大約是280億美元。

But if we are expecting total CapEx for 24 to grow in a dollar term over 23, it seems like you are expecting a CapEx ramp in 2024. Maybe that’s your planning for some of the CapEx ramp in 24. Is that the right way to think about a CapEx is 7 billion pretty like a really bottom level run rate for QSMC CapEx at this point? Thank you.

但如果我們預期24年的總資本支出將以美元計價超過23年，那麼您似乎預期2024年的資本支出將會增加。也許這就是您計劃在24年增加一些資本支出。這是不是考慮資本支出的正確方式，即70億美元對於QSMC的資本支出來說，像是一個真正的底層運行率？謝謝。

Host:
All right, so Charles’ second question is also on CapEx.Basically he’s saying, given the guidance, he’s looking at our CapEx is running at about a U.S. dollar 7 billion run rate. So he’s assuming, although we do not comment on 24, he’s assuming if next year’s CapEx dollar amount is going to increase, but if we’re running at 7 billion run rate, does that imply 28 billion? How should he reconcile this?

好的，那麼查爾斯的第二個問題也是關於資本支出。基本上他的意思是，根據指導，他正在觀察我們的資本支出運行速度大約是每年70億美元。所以他在假設，雖然我們不對24做評論，他在假設如果明年的資本支出金額將會增加，但如果我們以70億的運行速度來看，那是否意味著280億？他應該如何調和這個矛盾呢？

Wendell:
Charles, every year the CAPEX is invested based on the future opportunity to growth. We invested to capture those future opportunities. Too early to talk about 2024, really. We’ll share the guidance with you in January quarterly release.
Charles，每年的資本支出都是根據未來增長的機會來投資的。我們投資以把握未來的機會。現在談論2024年還真的太早了。我們將在一月的季度報告中與您分享指導方針。

Host:
Okay. All right, thank you, Charles. Thank you, everyone. This concludes our Q&A session.
好的。好的，謝謝你，查爾斯。感謝大家。這結束了我們的問答環節。

（首圖來源：Shutterstock）